ML:Good evening I'm a Mary Lahammer and welcome to this governors forum. It's a partnership between TPT and AARP. For the next hour we're going to talk to the three leading candidates for governor about issues of special importance to Minnesotans older than fifty. But many of these issues, the state budget
the economy, health care are important to all of us. So don't go anywhere, the debate begins in just a few seconds.

 
Announcer: Governor debate older Minnesotans speak is a co-production of AARP, online AARP.org/MN and TPT's Minnesota Channel.

(Music)

 
ML:Thanks for joining us, and a special welcome to those listening to this debate tonight on radio stations across the state. Let's hit the ground running. With us tonight are the three top candidates on the ballot for governor. They're here because each has received more than five percent support in an independent statewide poll.

 
The rules tonight are simple: This is a conversation, not a formal debate. You won't see any podiums, no stopwatches, no robert's rules of order. So let's get going.

 
Here are the candidates in alphabetical order

 
Mark Dayton is the Democrat running in the race. He's a former US Senator

 
Tom Emmer is the Republican on the ballot. He's currently a state lawmaker. Tom 

Horner is the standard bearer for the Independence Party. He's a long-time twin cities public relations executive.

 
Well first question gentlemen.

 
Kind of the news of the week, we all got more details on each of your budget plans and it all presented some hurdles too, for you ahead. Let's start with you Representative Emmer because you've released the third and final part of your budget and one aspect that could be difficult going forward is cutting education --higher education in Minnesota. So how does a candidate for governor run in Minnesota saying you're going to cut education, specifically higher ed?

 
TE:Well actually Mary what we did this week is we put out the only balanced budget that has been presented. I think it's more than anybody... I'm told it's more than anybody's ever done in running for an office like this. We put out budget targets in every area of government. For instance in the K-12 area, I know you've talked about higher ed, we're adding five hundred million dollars. If you look at...

ML: Your opponents may differ with that.

TE: If you look... well they might try to but the reason they're going to defer is because you're really looking at two different ways of doing this. One we believe that the state has to live within its means.

ML: Right

TE: You have to start purchasing the services that people expect from government within the revenues the government has. And the reality is that the next Governor, the next legislature will have almost seven percent, seven to eight percent, more to spend, than the current one, about 3 billion more.

ML: OK, how about specifically on higher ed? It's a four hundred million dollar cut. Isn't that fair? 

TE: That is. That is.

ML:Is it going to mean higher tuition?

TE:Well I sure hope not. I mean we will challenge both the uh the university
of Minnesota and the MNSCU system, we will challenge them to work within what
we're talking about and try to come up with efficiencies. The idea is to make sure that we all live within our means not just uh one entity of government.

 
ML: OK. Senator Dayton you also had the department of revenue runyour tax increase plan and it came up short,nearly two billion dollars short. Tell me what you think you're going to do to fill that hole for the revenue. Are you going to have to increase said income tax more, drop down to lower earners workers, go to other tax increases, more cuts? what are you going to do to fill that hole?

 
MD:The reason that it came up short was because of the income levels I set for beginning any tax increase would affect, the Department of Revenue said, three point eight percent of taxpayers in Minnesota, so...

ML:Do you disagree with that?

MD: No. I agree with their analysis, it's certainly... others have said that I know this is about the taxing middle-class and in fact it's clear that my proposal would affect...would not affect not over ninety six percent of taxpayers...

ML: But are going have to dip down and affect the middle class?

MD:So I'll look for other sources of revenue. We'll have to look for additional cuts. And that's what I'm in the process of doing now.

ML: OK, let me jump in. What other sources of revenue, you know sales taxes? What other taxes?

MD: Well, this is just one component, is raising the income tax rates. So we're looking at other ways of making taxes more progressive in Minnesota and that's my commitment 

ML:Other taxes, but...


MD:And if I become Governor, I'll work with the Revenue and other authorities to find areas where we can continue to look to make revenues come on a more progressive basis. And that's the real difference between myself and the two gentlemen here.

 
ML:Are you committed to leaving your income tax increase proposal as is. Could it go up higher? Could you reach down lower?

 
MD: No I said I would keep the rate below the top rate in the country which is eleven percent. These two scenarios we ran were 10.85 and 10.95 percent but again affecting less than four percent of all taxpayers, only the very top four percent .

ML: Other taxes you won't specify yet what you're looking at?

MD: You know I'm looking right now.

ML: OK

MD: We'll see.

ML: Speaking of other taxes, Mister Horner, you talked about other taxes and this week you came out with a jobs plan.

TH: Right

 
ML:People mention that you didn't know how many jobs it would create and you also got a little criticism for saying they were old ideas and it wasn't out of the box for this third-party candidate who needs to be out of the box.

TH: Well I didn't say they were old ideas. I think some of the %uh the folks from the Democratic and Republican parties have said they were old ideas.

 
You know, it, it's a collection of good ideas that says that Minnesota is not going to grow, we're not going to have economic expansion if we're Johnny-one-notes. If we just believe that we can cut our way to success or we can tax our way to success. So my tax plan that says that we ought to encourage businesses to invest and so the the tax proposals I have in there are tax cuts that are are paid to companies that are investing in research and development. Buying new equipment...

ML: Is that new? Is that innovative? Is that out of the box? 

TH: It is the kind of proposal that people say will grow the economy. Now where I do have some innovation uh is is in saying that as a state we ought to fund research at the University of Minnesota at other two and four year schools. I've created some innovation funds so that we are open to new ideas.

ML: How about jobs? Do you have a tally yet on how many jobs...a ballpark?

TH:No, but, but lookit, I mean all of us have put out jobs programs and none of us has been able to to say specifically it will create this many jobs. You know I think what, what Minnesotans have from the three of us frankly is is a very good sense of how each of us would govern, of the priorities each of us would set.

Um, and and in my case I think that that Minnesota needs to have a balanced approach. I think we need to make investments in education, in the future and grow jobs that way.

ML:Okay we're going to talk more about the state budget in just a minute. But first let's hear from some Minnesotans on the topic. We went to the state fair a few weeks back to talk to voters about the economic issues they were most worried about here's what we found out.

 
Woman at State Fair:
I think it's important that the candidates are able to cross partisan lines to be able to solve the budget crisis and not really become entrenched in agendas in order to help frame the issue on the budget. 

 
Man at state fair:
I think one of the things they need to do is look at cutting the taxes. Lower the taxes especially for businesses. Cause the more money that's flowed into the
the community they're eventually going to come out ahead money wise with it I believe. 

Man at state fair:
It's reality. If we if we expect services, they need to be paid for and uh uh if the if it takes taxes to do that um that's the way it has to be.

 
Man at state fair:
Given the condition of the economy right now I don't think raising taxes makes any sense at all. While the economy in Minnesota is nowhere near as bad as it's is in Arizona or Nevada We'll still have trouble here and raising
taxes or only hurt that.  We have to learn to cut spending and we have cut waste. 

Woman at state fair:
It would be nice to reduce some expenditures. And there again, unless you're right there with the books in front of you, you can't just off the cuff say "we'll cut this, cut that" because you don't want to hurt people either.

 
Man at State Fair 
I'm very uncomfortable with extreme views on either end of the spectrum and I believe that %uh a win-win situation needs to occur for the populace to %uh really benefit from any of the programs.

Man at state fair: 
Is he going to increase taxes? Or is he going to increase revenues or what? What's going to go on? I'd like to know just exactly how he's going to balance the budget. 

 
ML:
OK, let's talk taxes more here and specifically how some of that tax impact could
Hit folks over fifty. That's that focus tonight.

 
Let's start with you, Tom Horner and your plan to tax services. Sales taxes on services...

TH: Well, but, but keep in mind in the overall plan is lower the tax rate, so those people buying big ticket items appliances, furniture actually are going to pay a little bit less in in sales tax

 
And then yes that would expand the to to clothing and and services. Not business the business services, some personal services. That's in line with other states...

ML: How about the personal services. Might seniors use more personal services? Could it effect them disproportionately?

TH:No,I think it's going to affect everybody fairly

ML: Is it? OK.
 
TH:Because I do have 350 million dollars in there to make sure that we're not taxing low income middle income unfairly. You know, my budget says look we're all in this together were all going to have to share a little bit of the sacrifice to dig out of that the six billion dollar hole that is being left to the next governor. I think that's the responsible way to go.

 
ML: Representative Emmer, you're going to be cutting local aid and local government aid cuts under governor Pawlenty, many say resulted in  property tax increases. Could property tax increases disproportionately hurt seniors and folks over fifty?

TE: Well, you asked me two different questions. I mean if local units of government are going to insist on that giving raises that are out of line it to the private sector. I mean I ask people all the time, Mary when I go in, how much of a raise  did you get this year? And most people say I didn't get a raise or I don't have a job right

ML: But a lot of mayors are saying that property taxes could go up under your plan.

this year beyond

 
I hope it will

 
that's when you have people in

 
a different cities that are giving their public
employees three percent or more

 
increases at a time when we're suffering

 
we don't look at with local governments to
an end and please when we talk about local

 
government

 
what I propose with this I don't know how
many of your viewers understand that

 
only about half the city's in this state get
any local government aid and frankly only

 
a handful get the lion's share

 
what we propose to do is make sure that local
government aid

 
applies to those things that was intended
to in communities that have supported by services

 
like police and fire

 
sure and water infrastructure

 
that's where it should be it should be categorical

 
but that actually will

 
benefits cities right now that are not getting
an upcoming time could go up as a result of

 
that makes a local issue no I don't think
it's fair it take to connect it to it's not

 
fair I think those mayors that say that

 
they did take a hard look at their budget
as a is the only one up here who sat in the

 
city council

 
who's been through this I can tell you

 
that is a decision for the local unit of government
many many cities right now Mary

 
our budgeting without any local government
aid and again we said it should be categorical

 
government should provide for public safety
for fire of protection for soaring water infrastructure

 
those communities that don't have that economic
ability will get that in

 
Saturday

 
you know you can have ten reach for your revenue
play

 
and then finding out that two billion dollar
hole how could that affect seniors what other

 
taxes are you looking at

 
at an income tax ten years

 
could be a battle by the income tax to on
the upper income

 
and again my proposal to cut back some less
than four percent of

 
taxpayers of the there might be a few

 
the wealthy seniors be asking to pay a little
more or some more

 
but young people are middle class of people
and and seniors who %uh

 
ron and on fixed incomes are are not going
to be affected and

 
and you know it with all due respect I think
property taxes and I believe a lot of business

 
people remember governor Clinton and department
which we would reserve forty cents for every

 
dollar reduction and local government accounting

 
property taxes go up but sixty seven cents

 
so in property taxes go up that's the most
unfair tax on the gain program is as the middle

 
class pays about five times more percent of
their income in property taxes on the wealthiest

 
people in minnesota

 
and sales tax at about two and half times
more so

 
you like to have the mental health belfast
now very very well in his role as a balancer

 
regressive tax so you're not ninety five sales
tax your know at the end of our revenue again

 
so those

 
the US off people you know sort of

 
there's four percentage of their income in
state local taxes than everyone else

 
that's the definition a regressive tax system
overall

 
so just to make it fairer

 
to Steve in and out

 
so what these people are paying of the fair
share

 
thaksin in a more progressive now more aggressive
okay let what's on up a little bit

 
each in their own

 
talk to an opponent hearing

 
and point out are ask a question about some
of

 
laws are questions you may have

 
about each other's budget plan

 
I mean it's out there

 
let's jump in

 
it's an opportunity

 
but but can represent them are just following
up on the last comment

 
the the the the EU which

 
that led the charge during the the up

 
primary campaign would be in the %uh the endorsement
campaign

 
by your opponent that when you are a member
of the delegates at the council that you voted

 
for sixteen percent increase in property taxes

 
and specifically said that this is a result
of cuts in state funding

 
would your response was a city council member
a

 
I can't tell you when you look at numbers
he's got to look at a time

 
I don't know what I you whether you

 
you know the numbers you're talking about
%uh it whether they're real he might well

 
as well back in locked up it was exactly the
%uh the algae a issue that we're talking about

 
and guess what

 
as he had never the city council in the city
delaware we did exactly what we were supposed

 
to do we were very responsible the budget
and that's what cities need to do right now

 
happy Islamic here's what I would day send
back to both of you

 
let's say it's all right to talk about numbers
but the year short in your budget Senator

 
by about %uh two billion dollars you've been
very gracious acknowledging that you've got

 
this big hole in that figure out how to fill
it

 
by it mister porter you you've got about two
billion dollar hole in your so-called budget

 
is well

 
I put out a balanced budget that lives within
our means the the state government in the

 
state of minnesota will have roughly thirty
three billion dollars to spend the next tightening

 
we have made the hard what's your question
and the answer is that our children's and

 
we talk about the budget that's balanced

 
I've shown people put our cards on the table
and citizens what we're going to do

 
I'm asking you that's where you going to cut
because all you're telling minnesota right

 
now as these of the wonderful things I want
to do for but where you going to cut is a

 
public safety is that the judiciary

 
where are you going to cut

 
is the answer that yes he did propose a sixty
percent increase in profits I answer that

 
we can read

 
the onset budget the way we're still low sixteen
said I don't even know there was a sense there

 
was a levee back with know you've got that
wrong question I'm asking so could you crack

 
that Hamas will increase was going to cut
the taxes on member was minimal and in terms

 
of what the citizens of don't they

 
but here's what it was

 
it should be for police and fire services
time if you look right now

 
so you don't know just like it

 
any local government a what does the city
bombing to get busy dying to get the you know

 
no but I think that we ought to have all the
government assistance

 
the and inouye that delivers court essential
public services helps those communities

 
make sure that they can deliver services out
but I also believe that I resorted to a we

 
agree because what he's talking about a lot
but what always be more police fire

 
so really what our infrastructure

 
in minneapolis do you have any idea Senator
how much minneapolis get some local government

 
of the rumors have been around for one of
the pillars of numerically alone prisoner

 
of war is very much in women at the time I
thought I thought about it let me just finish

 
up here because

 
according to the coalition of retirement to
other cities

 
forty percent of their member communities
before the twenty two and cuts

 
have to make cuts in fire and police

 
so at the level that why

 
because they weren't getting enough assistance
how does the economy was down why does government

 
ever cut police and fire instead of cutting
golf courses instead of cutting because already

 
capital luxuries why would you do that time
UN fired him and I think that's the point

 
where prison

 
those are the kinds of things that are saying
that is not something I didn't like it and

 
I think that is the point where there were
no more luxuries left

 
but they don't have those luxury that they're
having to testify truthfully says honest about

 
it

 
that's entertainment

 
they thought that they were visibly thinner
President in finally of the long-term forty

 
days after he was endorsed the his party he
came close to the budget I give you credit

 
for your candor

 
and I remove the following

 
of some next week with more what my dilemma
is

 
then you're out that your criminalists about
the country making but I just think that drastic

 
cuts for fourteen percent for higher education

 
I don't control the education you couldn't
talk about the the out of five hundred million

 
but they're there to be

 
ten thousand more students in our public schools
kindergarten through twelfth grade

 
over the next two years

 
and so the the the

 
the actual per student a cut there is even
greater and we're

 
talking about health and human services us
another remain about a

 
we love the nineteen percent cut in the get
into that somebody else who has handed us

 
today

 
these numbers I have but you can

 
good is going to seniors

 
because you know I mean over half of the formal
department and services budget

 
goes for the medical systems and for the elderly

 
and for long-term care

 
and this will give in to assume for talking
about some of those services you know this

 
weekend both parties and over twenty

 
they've done a lot made a real effort to do

 
keep those costs down and make those services
cost effective and the reality is that as

 
the population ages

 
more more road the elderly

 
citizens need those services so

 
it may be either off problems you know that
none of us create a six billion dollar deficit

 
former governor of the legislature then have
to solve

 
there's no easy simple way to pretend otherwise

 
and attended any these cuts are not going
to have serious consequences for real minnesota

 
citizens' lives

 
%uh I think is is something like that I think
is the right time what are the consequences

 
of for health and human services people are
going to lose eligibility I thank him and

 
a half and no that's not asking too nobody's
really

 
we we can't say that of the federal play there's
going to have to be waivers like the type

 
that

 
here's the problem and I think the public
needs to understand because

 
what

 
did did we really are in a fork in the road

 
you can either go the way that these two gentlemen
suggest which is the way we've been doing

 
it either

 
continue to raise taxes whether it be more
sales taxes or whether it's

 
different taxes on what your respectfully
Senator going to hit the middle class middle

 
class

 
you can either continue to deny our respectfully
they are not mister perot you are going to

 
are going to raise jurors regardless you going
to raise taxes that we can agree on that you're

 
going to raise taxes so in order for you from
our government

 
here's the problem

 
Senator when you see that on cutting say health
and human services and fact the budget we

 
put out his six hundred fifty million dollars
more

 
in health and human services in the state
is spending today tightening up your comment

 
on a growth and their what but the real culprit
to accommodate the growth which they're you

 
haven't addressed the fact that

 
health and human services is scheduled to
go by thirty two percent in explaining President

 
is that going to be turning people away

 
and the more I learn about hair and fiber
it should be and your priority should be children

 
the honorable adults seniors that's who you
should be taking care of our live coverage

 
that is the goal hold them harmless but here's
what we've got to talk about it

 
if you're going to if you're not going to
make decisions as to how you're going to reform

 
these programs and hold the line

 
live within our means

 
health and human services

 
if it grows at thirty two percent every two
years will heat up the entire state budget

 
by twenty twenty in if that happens

 
then there will be no money no matter what
you do for K-TWELVE for roads and bridges

 
its efforts kind of government live with the
and I have to say I'm not going to let you

 
know very clear on that

 
let's get it right

 
you are going to raise taxes raise taxes on
your adult city council member

 
a couple of weeks ago at game fair

 
you agree to raise sales tax because of that

 
all right a couple of the the bill that said
I don't know anything else to add

 
sir that you actually supported honest with
folks and get them out

 
are you rejecting the sales tax increase for
the elected on a legacy amendment but when

 
I raise in any more taxes you did it you did
agree to raise that tax rate on you heard

 
what we did we did agree to raise that had
the primaries are in our hands extracting

 
that fact

 
I've developed a legacy and I mean I didn't
vote for the last season but attacks that

 
had threatened to of abuse are a lot that's
what we're dealing with the issue that is

 
they presented you'll with your bill

 
to repeal legacy amendment then use that I
no longer support this collect senate memorize

 
in mostar right

 
that then you're a to try to repeal it to
a large extent we will have a man dressed

 
issue should do anything else I did not support
a tax increase the lesson that are angry not

 
only on the state budget now and talk about
some other economic issues helped us

 
dear God let's go back to the state fair I
know what it is that kind of thing we asked

 
them about job

 
I looked like he just moved up their talking
about fourteen months ago among whites had

 
a real hard time finding work

 
and I know people in other places are having
a lot more trouble right now I think the best

 
way to find jobs is to be competitive well
I see the biggest challenge right now are

 
a that it's a

 
I spent many years in the for her roles

 
coming up from the bottom and never actually
got a great so it is a struggle to see how

 
going back at this point

 
with the advent of it was not family I've
been fortunate in that I I think it's more

 
underemployed

 
out there working at jobs that are really
don't want a graduated from college and they

 
can't find a physician and they are

 
so what you're saying

 
the people I mean no one is %uh

 
hospital workers

 
another is %uh

 
in the medical field

 
both of them lost their jobs both the more
exciting activity there

 
on specific fields %uh

 
they can't get hired because corporate has
taken over some of those responsibilities

 
so they're looking at jobs that are much less
they

 
in previous and reduce benefits lot of course
growing our economy is the most important

 
ask making sure that to find front line

 
I think they're gonna the next governor could
be critical in helping

 
at the other

 
our problem is age

 
and there is no need for many legally

 
but let's face it in the real world that can
be a challenge

 
hundred eighteen take this one first

 
when we hear about folks trying to find work
it seems like those older than fifty are having

 
a harder time that are laid off for a Foster
child

 
finding employment what will you do as governor
to help them get jobs world from but these

 
are ordinary

 
he has really affects those Olmert

 
fifty bodies that young people coming out
of college as well you know I I had to have

 
had you worked for the last

 
the great job governor of minnesota refurbish
of coming out of the nineteen eighty two recession

 
and %uh you know he'd be was a part-time job
as governor as I intend to be in in the shop

 
around and literally that of

 
a million-dollar bounty bill next year uncertain
of you know there's another trial was with

 
interest rates from all of us the opportunity

 
studies say that the million dollars in public
projects Europe reach twenty eight thousand

 
jobs in the private channel for example fact

 
and our affiliate rates are as low as they
are we rank low ruble among the states or

 
Canada

 
in having of of the internet for ratio

 
and the the stadium is another eight thousand
jobs over three years putting people back

 
to work there are proposing energy savings
bonds I think the reason I keep going and

 
I think that's an indicator of people stadium
no PHD in will be in the best interest of

 
people in this world

 
for the economic benefits

 
foreign compared to the cost of the would
not good come out of the general fund

 
my attorney said his client it takes a

 
these example from the original so tomorrow's

 
where they have retreated into buildings for
more efficient energy use that creates jobs

 
that seventeen cooling system to use alternative
energy

 
they're buying the corner of stocks from the
reformers which money into the local economy

 
how about you ma'am

 
the gas applying it is a billion dollars in
energy costs related to replicate that kind

 
of approach

 
real estate college and university polling
institute and the north state government local

 
government

 
the %uh schools around the state and we could
transform the

 
public sector use of energy in our state put
people to work in those projects a victim

 
of taxpayer energy costs and bring that alternative
energy

 
industry to minnesota for the future

 
and some are attacked by a jobs plan there
can you

 
five how it can help older folks people over
fifty

 
absolutely

 
because part of what I'm proposing he is

 
that we strengthen higher education and particularly
our two years schools

 
and we tie them indirectly to the the regional
economies into businesses

 
that's what the opportunity to provide lifelong
learning

 
to give people new skills but also to create
new jobs with the local industries

 
the and jobs that that are appropriate to
the population of people have heart attacks

 
afford to go back to school

 
we're going to have to provide some way to
to make them of do to make it affordable

 
part of that is

 
how we as a state decide to fund a career
schools so that it is affordable

 
we can't afford to leave fifty fifty five-year-old
out there

 
I'm and and just pull the rug out from under
them

 
so part of it also though married is

 
we need to make employing people affordable

 
and so we do need to manage the cost of health
care

 
and when we undermine

 
the the the the cost of of health care when
we leave people

 
boehner of all to to health care

 
force them into emergency rooms in the same
kind of thing that's happening now with

 
the general assistance medical care

 
were people are forced into emergency rooms

 
the hospital's up are about to take action
but with but that cost get shifted to the

 
employer

 
that makes it more expensive to hire people

 
so we have to have responsible health care
program for everybody in minnesota

 
that does keep health costs affordable that
does make it possible for people to hide from

 
players to hire older workers are kids that
are hurrying to create jobs especially for

 
men over fifty

 
as the tax cut do that

 
that %uh say I mean there's are i'll explain
it but

 
I just listened to my colleagues and

 
they have great ideas they want to %uh put
money into %uh government projects they want

 
to invest that in higher education all kinds
of things

 
they're very laudable

 
but if you don't create jobs if you don't
have a growing vibrant private economy you

 
can't do any of these wonderful things we're
talking about and I think that's what it's

 
all about

 
I you don't wait to do the CIA these tax policies
you doing right away and twenty eleven

 
he get it moving you take allow the taken
from what I've heard a lot charlie take a

 
look at a time not helped I'm a little bit

 
that you were asking him about that caller
even a calculate jobs while like I don't know

 
it's only that he had government people that
say

 
honey jobs you can create as we know

 
government doesn't create jobs

 
people create jobs you need to give them

 
an opportunity in the marketplace in their
own resources

 
give them the ability to create those jobs
and then sky's the limit it's up to them if

 
you will for young and there are a lot of
bills and more structured products great architect

 
government and that's why I said that this
interview that'sa laudable but you don't

 
and if you don't have

 
a growing at the private economy if you don't
create an environment with lower taxes

 
with less regulation or streamlined anyway
regulations so that existing businesses can

 
start to grow again start a hired hand

 
and so that new investment

 
private investment can come to the state of
minnesota

 
if you're not growing your private economy

 
you're not going to have the funds to pay
for all these wonderful things

 
that have gone and I know

 
you don't like any of the binding bill so
far is there a binding bill which not democrats

 
called jobs bill is it is it when you could
support of governer of absolutely and I think

 
if you look at the budget that I put out

 
fortnight infrastructure in emergency issues
%uh it is in the budget does that create as

 
many jobs it wasn't know it's a restructuring
plan to the right now we've been focusing

 
all on bombing bills and there's a place for
bonds motion for

 
by projects of statewide and regional significance
with capital long-term improvements absolutely

 
%uh but if you're going to pay for those if
you can't pay the debt service if you can't

 
pay for the services that we want purchased
from government again Mary

 
you have to start growing jobs again in the
state of minnesota

 
but here's the problem here's the problem
what representative have our with all due

 
respect

 
and I do admire that you've you put on the
budget I think all of us have put out a lot

 
of good information for the people to see
and evaluate

 
but what you're really proposing is the last
eight years that's correct

 
and the problem with that is that

 
in the last two decade in good years and bad
minnesota his late the nation in job growth

 
we're not growing at a rate as fast as we'd
need to

 
we have economic the problem with that

 
a opportunities that are losing their leading
minnesota

 
and yes we ought to be concerned about every
job that leaves whether it's helped put up

 
or any other state but what we've really ought
to be concerned with

 
are those good career

 
cutting edge economy jobs

 
they're going to Wisconsin that are going
to other states that are going to other countries

 
and they're doing that with the research that
is being created at the university of minnesota

 
with the talent pool that is being educated
and of minnesota schools

 
and then moving out of state

 
that's what we can't afford whatever you need
to maintain it's in that context

 
we need to maintain

 
%uh healthy

 
%uh up a education system that that the higher-level
that K-TWELVE

 
because long term

 
are distinctive advantage what will grow the
good jobs

 
will be our talent cool and we need to make
sure it's the best in the nation

 
that time really you know that the last eight
years that what we're proposing has not happened

 
but at all you know and I know that that your
job has been representing people influencing

 
government you've worked on them rail project
of you work for hospitals

 
influencing government see you know the the
problems that they face

 
you've got were proposing taking the %uh corporate
franchise tax in reducing it by a couple points

 
which will put three hundred sixty three million
dollars into the pockets of our players but

 
that hasn't happened in the last twenty years
or senate and the higher

 
he said oh absolutely

 
well the this is important I don't find any
minute now Gary care lot of the in addition

 
the land well that's true of the club's ex
senate aide

 
the island of voters lived

 
premature of the importance of higher education

 
all the education certainly

 
but reestablishing the original shows action
on some key reason they're going to be

 
computer crucial whether it's scientific research
that militant attack in the administration

 
and it's just a tiny well we need to reestablish
excellent you know in the university of minnesota

 
medical school at harvard medical school bus

 
senior college in Fort Smith of oppression
I change my mind

 
but back in the hands of those in the top
aide to medical schools the country now works

 
ranked well for

 
primary care what the FAA thirtieth

 
for research

 
no we well this is the most investors looking
for federal resources have been in the private

 
sector to collaborate in the coming weeks
and months of misery now with the new President

 
ever city

 
and saying they're worried I had one of the
strategies we need

 
so we can be the best of things are really
a payoff for the future and so that's a mandate

 
for one grant institutions such as the christians
or

 
mister campuses

 
there's a greater minnesota the same role
play but

 
and educating the young people

 
then

 
the older people will go back to school

 
so that they can indeed be trained and ready
for the jobs of the future is the key role

 
of education

 
and and those are the best paying jobs well-educated
people are going to have higher paid jobs

 
your point though

 
the new to say it isn't just money

 
in some cases it is money

 
and we need to be honest with minnesotans

 
we need to state that we do need to make investments

 
we ought to fund research at the university
of minnesota

 
and other two and four years schools we ought
to make college affordable we ought to make

 
sure that we have the best-educated talent
pool

 
we need to do a widely efficiently smartly

 
absolutely

 
but when we stopped making investments in
the future

 
we will be a debate on the slide mediocrity
in that we're not going to be on next week

 
minnesota you tell 'em what taxes you're going
to raise I think that have no you haven't

 
told them that if I happen to have shortfall

 
but it's also going to continue staffed by
what's her his friends well known that he

 
was asking about the the tax proposal

 
I've been very clear whether the lower the
rate on the sell side and the rodhams in taxes

 
again race if you're not going to tell minnesota
the two billion dollar hole that you have

 
to the moderates were going to lower the rate
on the sales tax

 
brought in the basin

 
to include clothing and some services

 
I'm going to close some tax expenditures

 
some of the deductions and credits to go to
the wealthy

 
because I do agree that needs to be some more
equity and fairness senate

 
we are going to be increased taxes on tobacco
and alcohol

 
instead what I say us

 
you get a tax cut is not yet again a kind
of put it at right but when you do that station

 
at a location I don't have to be included
to get your two point one five billion on

 
taxes you the only one we ought to worry about
up to the only reason we ought to worry about

 
corruption old

 
is that you guys get your plants through for
all the people who will be leaving minnesota

 
okay company well that's not entirely question
here the fact is that may be the most

 
using taking a look at some of the other issues
of importance to defendant ever fifty for

 
example health care

 
and long-term care

 
let's take a look at what is being done to
stop it

 
the pope is something wrong with is very important

 
and I would hope that they would have a lot
of you

 
and I think that's a short-term

 
opportunity is one of the biggest challenges
that we face the music and the issue

 
and that's the future of an ancient economy
and that big issue on yes I would like to

 
know what policies they would propose to protect
minnesota citizens from floods and stay

 
I do think for that everyone has health care
and painful sell-off

 
because we have a situation where people can
be in the system

 
not have health care

 
and then walking the house believes that taxpayers
pick it up and that's not fair to those most

 
places

 
preventative health care so it's not emergency
number

 
other people are being sure but it's they're
being served at the high spots educational

 
the state fallen off the it was

 
education the here to forgive

 
I want a governor to leave %uh to lead in
a progressive manner

 
I like to get some of the issues that people
are concerned about

 
settled in salt totally agent dignity out
early

 
educate our kids

 
%uh police chief for retirement

 
those kinds of things

 
let's take health care represent and I think
in the press have carefully said

 
they would not opted to federal health care

 
tell us why not and what other federal programs
would you turn out what other sources of money

 
do not want from the Fed well at that the
last five the hypothetical

 
is it appropriate I think every

 
every new program that is sent to minnesota

 
by congress should be evaluated be an ex-governor
the next legislature in going off in the future

 
should always be doing the due diligence in
evaluating

 
what is minnesota getting versus water we
are bleeding future minnesotans record turnout

 
other parts of the federal money or open to
doing that by I think you get a value it everything

 
and I won't give you a

 
yea or nay again every program has to be evaluated
on its own merits

 
what are we opting into in where the long
term financial liabilities for the state of

 
minnesota because

 
obviously if you're taking on long-term financial
liability suit you may not be able to pay

 
for

 
you shouldn't be accepting those until you
understand what those ramifications are

 
that would be really happy and that could
mean I know these gentlemen feel differently

 
but

 
it's at four hundred thirty million dollars
have over the next three years number one

 
that's what is could cost the state

 
but number two

 
hey if you look at the way minnesota is innovative

 
minnesota is design figured out how to provide
high-quality

 
care at a low cost

 
unfortunately the federal programs is not

 
it doesn't reimburses based on that based
on high quality low cost

 
instead the federal government

 
reimburses based on volume of care

 
I I don't think that's the right answer for
the future of minnesota in addition to the

 
financial viability in problematic real kind
Y

 
captain if it's going to cost us money isn't
it's a net one hundred eighty eight million

 
dollars visit the oval office is another as
a political issue and the governor provided

 
for in the budget for the next plane him

 
they would bring one point four billion dollars
for the seven or return for the state

 
the road and and three fours of Medicaid the
spending goals for the elderly and people

 
with disabilities

 
so it in this is going to provide a better

 
reporting medical care to the elderly and
people with disabilities throughout the state

 
is crucial to

 
lou the rural hospitals why is the minnesota
medical association called perot's

 
minnesota chamber of commerce call for this

 
minnesota hospital association called for
the use of private sector people understand

 
but that money is essential special in greater
minnesota

 
to the financial stability of these hospitals
in their building by good quality care

 
for everyone that's how it got there because
if hospitals opposed it chamber photograph

 
as a matter of those there

 
groups say seen you on your side and they're
not on the absolutely will they will be any

 
well I have a lot of respect for Senator I
I think you might want to check these numbers

 
to because %uh what you're suggesting is just
simply not true been a lot of her mother listen

 
I'm not sure

 
well no I can't because position

 
there wasn't a real

 
this one hundred eighty nine that hello

 
I well I I didn't you'd be better check those
numbers I mean

 
much like the %uh so-called budget that you
put out the numbers you given right now don't

 
add up that's not what's going to happen and
frankly

 
if you're gonna lead

 
this time it stopped doing things auto automatically
the way we've been doing

 
because that's what you're proposing if you
do this even if you were right and I

 
I'm she respectfully submit you're not

 
that a even if you were right will be right
back in this soup within four to six years

 
and then you be talking

 
to the good people of the state of minnesota
to our hospitals to the end I mean all these

 
different interest groups and saying

 
now what we do when we solve it

 
right now structurally going forward so that

 
we can get on the right path and I couldn't
agree more we do have to change

 
how we do things

 
and tonight

 
the the update

 
it's really not mean I agree with me that
we ought to do that opted

 
but not too much to get the federal dollars

 
but to do health care well

 
because what we have been doing and what we
do need to change is exactly what we saw

 
with general assistance medical care

 
the health care program for low-income people
the represented them are and others

 
tried to to abandoned and and of push away

 
and the problem is that when you just do that

 
you don't save money

 
you just transfer that money

 
he transferred to hospitals

 
the transfer to property taxpayers in hennepin
county

 
who now have to pay for a GMC because the
the people who need care are coming into the

 
emergency rooms

 
and as a former employer

 
I know that you also transferred

 
to insurance premiums you transfer to the
cost of business

 
the transfer to the cost of health care

 
on purchases

 
and most of all what we've done in minnesota
and what represent of the camera

 
%uh and and I think Senator didn't

 
in their budgets proposed to to continue is
dead

 
we haven't really addressed some of the most
significant structural cost of that is

 
I would just keep

 
that transfer in the cost to providers

 
and so we asked nursing homes deliver care
for less than your call

 
we have hospitals doctors dentist

 
the liver care for less than it cost

 
yeah he looks good on paper it looks good
in your budget

 
it's not real cost savings

 
are you really think often have carried with
correct and the reality is again the mean

 
the eastern

 
nursing homes or fifty one of our business
minnesota since two thousand one

 
and what were under reimburse nursing homes
and yet that's one of the ways the legislature

 
and the governor try to keep costs down

 
well we have been

 
going from eighty percent of our long-term
care costs in nursing homes

 
to seven one percent by using

 
the elderly waiters for in-home care for that

 
the seniors who want to stay in their homes

 
and yet you know the cost that's going up
is still less than half of all the cost of

 
a nursing home

 
so there's some of these things have been
taken and the reality is

 
we're awful lot eight thousand people at the
and two thousand six of these only way you're

 
so almost nineteen thousand now

 
there's more people getting old

 
and burt and there were some I don't know
I'm not going to be dealing with us for the

 
next decade

 
is these pictures and that's going to cut

 
the to to turn our back on on federal money
when we send more money many to in Washington

 
we get back

 
and then jeopardize the financial stability
of hospitals and providers doctors were on

 
the scene is is I think just well speaking
of getting all President Obama recently said

 
that he had is living well

 
do any of you have living well

 
and I don't think I don't have one

 
how should people deal with and of white issued
you have strong opinions on crucial the side

 
when I think that that and I think they should
but I want to go back to that stuff like that

 
you're going to be an opportunity

 
because %uh it's Saturday that's just patently
false when you suggest the governor and the

 
legislature

 
have been that trying to squeeze nursing homes
in fact

 
there's a letter that I sang that to with
several of my colleagues that were asking

 
to increased funding the nursing homes

 
we try to do it several times over the last
six years

 
I have no idea if mister harmon you know you
can keep talking about all these investments

 
but you know what you are changing the thing
when it comes to health care in fact we were

 
in a debate the other night we suggested the
doctors

 
well frankly are really suffering

 
because they haven't had Medicare Medicaid
reimbursements adjusted in years many of them

 
are providing cost the services at the low-cost
and isn't just the bridges cannot opt into

 
every program that comes in that would continue

 
that type of that treatment of our physicians
is not going to promote number one

 
judd gregg high quality care at low cost

 
but more importantly it's not going to promote
the next generation of physicians which we

 
absolutely have to be concerned about in this
state and that that's what I would

 
we're proposing represent November I would
agree with you that I would be wrong

 
fortunately I don't have to make that acknowledgment
because that's not what I meant

 
I am proposing

 
I do think we ought to take the optimists
a medic

 
because they can save money he can provide
better health care it can lead us to a path

 
of reform

 
and we have done a good job in minnesota

 
we are starting the path of coordinating care
for those with chronic conditions

 
we are starting on the path of

 
I'm paying for for quality not just for quantity

 
but I believe we also need to keep on the
path of investing in prevention of spending

 
money to help will stay healthy because that
has a long-term benefit

 
but then we also I just want to to have to
reject are you really saying

 
but the legislative actions and the governor

 
over the last six years

 
have not reduce reimbursements for nursing
homes won't work for a client is what I'm

 
saying is that we have fought for more by
increases for nursing homes and frankly time

 
i'll tell you what if we're in the governor's
office

 
I put it in a budget which you have not you
talk about enough money in there for increases

 
respectfully if

 
you would tell minnesota which you're actually
going to raise in terms of taxes annual tell

 
minnesota house what you're going to cut

 
well we talked about these increasing the
health and human services budget

 
and we're talking about nursing homes senior
house

 
that's all that I don't see any reason why
it can't be just the to hear that none of

 
the case

 
when you see increased your budget by six
hundred fifty million dollars is that all

 
right

 
that doesn't even cover the cost of the cuts
that have already died at the hands of the

 
question Senator David vitter said he had
a living welfare was some kind of like issues

 
who should decide

 
I'm into place

 
like his son's third in line with mine living
will to make those decisions and I mean these

 
are very difficult

 
the full citizens are you know I I think those
are

 
that still left to

 
the individual

 
is your family and and and physician

 
mister Carter

 
living will Bush who should decide and and
of light

 
all the things that you can't

 
what book but that doesn't believe that living
wills so that you prepare for those circumstances

 
definitely doing and that is why you plan
ahead

 
I think it ought to be with the

 
the that the family

 
and and that it ought to be

 
%uh a collective decision

 
and ideally it ought to be done what everybody
is as healthy and has the fact that he's had

 
to make a good judgment okay

 
but but what I also believe that that

 
that is the role for for physicians to help
council to understand what the decisions are

 
not to move you in one direction or another

 
but these are complicated issues and not everybody
understands

 
what if perot it measures mean

 
and so we ought to have that kind of discussion

 
and so I would hope that

 
as we get more sophisticated

 
as we take some of the politics out of these
issues

 
the weekend asked backers and reimbursed doctors

 
to help lead people through these kinds of
conversations pay a lot of these issues health

 
care

 
air funding bill the budget

 
are going to take

 
work with the legislature an aide

 
very likely to get a bipartisan vote you're
going have to shore up support in the legislature

 
aside about out each of you can crossed partisan
lines we've heard some of our

 
it isn't saying

 
nonpartisan much across partisan lines hundred
eighteen

 
since you had to run against the speaker of
the house there was a little bit more challenging

 
for you to get legislative support

 
talk about how you're going to shore up democrats
and also republicans and get their support

 
for nearly six years as the were from republican
President and the republican majority in the

 
suffer for have low six years of age

 
last year for example and worked with us Senator
John McCain and also the nature of the senate

 
appropriations committee ted stevens and the
rest in peace

 
to get the first congressional funding for
a program beyond the already I want to thank

 
the entire national guard are you reaching
a lot here is the nine years old getting through

 
different stages and the ones that is why
the state agencies serve in the executive

 
branch the government

 
and I worked there was solicitor finally lawmakers
that there are now so %uh for the republican

 
group the house was republican too rigid for
a couple of years

 
and I pride myself on working with everyone
who could work with me I think you treat people

 
respectfully

 
so believe we know they're elected and each
in their own right

 
and rumors all of us disagreements but I've
always treated people in government perspectives

 
on a small level people is as they are

 
and there was anything about democracy

 
so we have different points of view in perspective

 
it was the country's only of one political
party or one candidate to choose from

 
the much worse government's than we have

 
in our state of minnesota and we can we have
the force led by a person try a person nonpartisan

 
we have a of high quality of government that
people people in government and in the legislature

 
and I look for working with them off under
arguing over legislators usually had a meeting

 
with a few who needed to be covered and right
on the world scene team were you were in a

 
vehicle for doing it

 
in a strong effort underway and some of the
some of them may have different

 
points of view and that's to be respected
honored and welcomed think I represent Iraq

 
tell me how you're going to work not just
across the aisle with democrats but also with

 
your own party you know you ran from leader
of your party

 
when I left it so they're still stunned

 
trade relationships with fellow republicans

 
even when your caucus went to see the governor
he did not follow along and and is that some

 
of those

 
governor meetings which India senate

 
republicans didn't show up that

 
your office if you were governor

 
well Mary I think you're

 
creating things were nothing exists that mean

 
a had a great relationships

 
with people on both sides of the fence get
some meetings with their caucus that ended

 
without and that

 
that fifty percent of caucus and is not and
I I'm not sure why

 
you decided to keep that track of where I
was and I would there's drive them out of

 
the cockpit

 
nice to have your attention to he asked not
I think it's a it's being proactive

 
it's being that clear an honest about what

 
you would propose to do

 
and then that had been consistent all the
way through

 
you gotta get respect of your colleagues you
also have to worry they may not agree with

 
you but as long as they know that what you
say you mean acting makes a lot easier to

 
work together and then

 
I would also suggest you know I put out the
jobs creation agenda

 
which a has not been enacted contrary to what
%uh %uh my colleague here

 
you suggested

 
that we need to do in the state of minnesota
create jobs and guess what

 
the things that I've proposed in my budget
proposal job creation proposal maybe not the

 
budget itself has

 
that's going to cause a lot of work by a lot
of people living within our means

 
making sure the government lives within its
means

 
but the job creation agenda

 
has been supported by republicans and democrats
alike bit different votes in the legislature

 
all right now Senator Davis tax the rich

 
that proposal had seven votes in the minnesota
house and at time warner

 
their sales tax proposal that you might find
one or two votes in the house but I challenge

 
you to find twenty people

 
would actually support that so it's

 
it's not just being proactive in terms of
working with people this is what we need to

 
do what and why

 
that's not being clear and honest about what
you propose to do in and listen to them

 
work with them and put out things that they'll
agree that Tom horner how do you reach out

 
us on republicans that your former republican
mayor a little team that you for leading the

 
party and

 
we watched jesse ventura struggle to work
with lawmakers to a legal issue here is the

 
first two years he was very successful by
telling his popularity ratings are down lawmakers

 
are enlisted men and he wanted to do some
things that that baby opened the door to that

 
so one and I think that all of that starts
actually in the kind of campaign you Brian

 
in how the you the preacher your fellow candidates
in the respect that you have for the public

 
and so I'm the candidate that has said

 
I will not run any negative advertising in
my campaign not a single ad and I will abide

 
by that

 
even though as I gained momentum

 
you can imagine that the attack ads are going
to come from the independent expenditure groups

 
I'm going to keep it a positive campaign

 
I think that sets a tone that allows me then
table into the governor's office

 
to appoint the kind of cabinet that adjustment
were ahead

 
every lacks a broad cross-section of of minnesota
for the best and the brightest

 
were there not because I've always special
favor to this group or that group

 
but because they know how to get the job done

 
but beyond that marry when you look at the
kinds of proposals that I have put out

 
the the senate

 
paxon leadership Senator boxer to rest

 
some of the most respected democratic members
on on taxes

 
sales taxes the the the way to go when you
look at editorial surrounding statement kato

 
they said my budget is the best

 
our no one at the most respected federal reserve
economists look at the three budgets

 
ted my most the best former governor arne
carlson

 
I mean it just goes on and on and on

 
were people around the state from both parties

 
he and objective observers are saying

 
it's my leadership it's my vision it's my
proposal that represents the best interest

 
of minnesota

 
because what I'm saying is

 
we can't just put all of the burden on the
poor

 
and we can't just put all of the burden on
the wealthy

 
we have to have a budget that works for all
the muscles were all in this together

 
and we all have to share

 
can you get into a runoff election is the
usual assortment of suicide for himself or

 
herself

 
which of our budget proposal in their best
interest

 
of Paul wellstone that verdict and

 
that's one reason that the

 
I won the primaries because people recognize
that I was going to protect the middle class

 
a from tax increases and

 
they're the same property taxes et cetera
were the most unfair tax a despite this no

 
new taxes' mantra last year is

 
cooper of the from four billion naira and
governor Clinton promised a seven billion

 
and and

 
because the

 
people have passed the buck it's easier to
say okay well we're not gonna make those tough

 
decisions and

 
it's a level of this let local governments
school board members and city council members

 
county commission

 
we've also cut

 
that's why it was our readiness as if you
cut of our local assistance in school systems

 
property taxes go up the most unfair attacks

 
that's why I think people recognize

 
the mind protection middle class the end of
the third and final picture in about one minute

 
each we heard something

 
in the tape they talk about vision and leadership
tell us how

 
your leadership style is going to be different
and the bass

 
especially for folks over fifty represent
honor

 
the you have a choice

 
November second will be a choice it'll be
a choice between doing what minnesota has

 
been doing over the last several decades

 
had that these two gentlemen offer which simply
is

 
we're going to continue to raise taxes that's
the answer is that it doesn't matter from

 
where we're going to raise taxes

 
we're going to continue to feed government
and

 
it we need something new

 
we needed to have government be more efficient
and deliver the services people expect in

 
affordable and sustainable manner but the
more important one

 
to do all the wonderful things that people
in minnesota have come to expect we can start

 
growing jobs in the private sector again

 
we have put this on the back to work because
that is what ultimately wolf fund our nursing

 
homes in fund all the different programs that
we expect minnesota painful time and final

 
to well so I think this issue this campaign
is about leadership

 
and my vision from minnesota

 
is a state that says to all minnesotans

 
look we have a bad big hole

 
all that was left was we haven't even talked
about the problem of public pensions of underfunded

 
infrastructure

 
it's not just the six billion dollars shortfall
it's all of the shortfalls that we have to

 
deal with

 
we better be investing in the future in creating
opportunity

 
and you don't do that just by cutting back

 
I'm education on health care on research

 
you do it by but making smart decisions by
investing for the future

 
and so my pitch

 
is that if minnesotans one boy

 
eight leadership in the governor's office

 
on in January of twenty eleven

 
it only starts

 
with bold leadership by voters

 
on November second and dayton

 
the seniors remember that the border of the

 
thirty five years of my life to public service
and so on

 
and %uh that they remember that I

 
the revised senate salary to them and so does
the new federation to support of both trips

 
in which the music and the where they can
buy much more cost prescription drugs on the

 
US side

 
the for close the door whole

 
all which are unfairly penalize is our seniors
and

 
burns and lewis chester those unlimited and
fixed incomes

 
with those those unnecessarily higher prescription
drug costs

 
and they care about the

 
the children grandchildren and their future
which is why my commitment to education increasing

 
funding

 
for public a twelve education subri early
childhood education recognition that there

 
are young people are our future and also provide
the support of for those in their retirement

 
years the liberals and secure a government
owned

 
and they'll help the lawyers

 
we have one quick thing to get one last question

 
how long did each one has their

 
more than a term

 
a pit where were running for a four year term

 
the not serve more than a walk one for a return
a look back on it I don't have a living will

 
it get to you in this okay

 
I think that that yeah i'll go and i'll be
a political lightning rod all take the hit

 
will bring democrats republicans together
i'll give them cover

 
I would never make a pledge to be a one-term
governor

 
but if the consequences of doing the right
things

 
cause we not to be reelected I'm okay with
that return who were the people of minnesota

 
well it's serve the two terms of

 
we'll take that long to straighten up the
mess we're in today in the crib and so on

 
thank you so much gentlemen for very glad
you joined us tonight for this conversation

 
with candidates for governor

 
special thanks to our partner in this debate
a are key

 
we remind you to register to vote election
day is Tuesday November second

 
and every watch this debate and learn more
information on this year's governor's race

 
skinhead garb web site that DPT dot O R G
it again TPG

 
that word

 
thanks again for tuning in tonight good night